Russia-Ukraine war: Key things to know about the conflict

[dvernb]

Why Vladimir Putin must be humiliated

The conventional wisdom has it that Vladimir Putin must not be humiliated, lest he do something crazy. The conventional wisdom is wrong. Putin requires no humiliation to do something unhinged, and his humiliation is the only way to end the Russo-Ukrainian War and give Russia a chance of returning to civilization.

Humiliation is not about insulting Putin, nor is it about exposing his personal peccadilloes. Humiliation is about handing Putin a complete and total defeat on the battlefield, one that will not enable him to “save face” and make a semi-plausible case for some form of Russian victory. Anything short of such a defeat will save Putin’s regime — as well as Putin himself — from collapse, persuade Russians that their faith in Putin was justified and their responsibility for war crimes is nil, and guarantee the war’s continuation. Putin must be humiliated for there to be a lasting and durable peace — and for Russia to begin its long slog back to humanity.

The genocidal war against Ukrainians is Putin’s war, but it wasn’t just a matter of his personal choice. Putin sits in the royal core of a highly centralized political system that, like Adolf Hitler’s, thrives on and needs violence, both to maintain law and order at home and to intimidate neighbors, acquire territory, power and influence, and justify its fascist constitution and policies with its domestic supporters among the elites and masses.

Putin announced the start of the "special military operation" on Feb. 24, but it is the fascist, imperialist Russian state that is waging hostilities, committing genocide and destroying Ukraine — all with the approval, sometimes enthusiastic and sometimes tacit, of most Russians.

Given these circumstances, if Putin manages to escape the consequences of Russia’s bellicosity by saving face and avoiding humiliation, the political and social system of which he is the core will continue to exist and its violent policy preferences will continue to determine Russia’s behavior internally and externally. Putin will remain in power and the fascist system that he has built so assiduously for over two decades will survive. The Russo-Ukrainian War may enjoy a hiatus for a few months or even years — and that will give the Russian military the opportunity to lick it's wounds and revive — but it inevitably will resume as soon as Putin, his system, and its supporters feel the time is right.

A comparison with Hitler is apposite. The Allies understood that Nazi Germany had to be defeated, completely and totally — that Hitler had to suffer humiliation and not be given the opportunity to save face. Anything short of a complete and total defeat would have meant a continuation of the Hitler state, the Hitler society, and Hitler himself. It was only after Hitler committed suicide and Nazi Germany capitulated that German society could be de-Nazified, albeit incompletely, and Germany be transformed into a decent society.

Does that mean invading Russia and reducing its cities to rubble? Of course not. A complete and total defeat would entail liberating the Ukrainian territory seized by Russia in2014 and in 2022; even driving the Russian troops to the pre-invasion borders would suffice to humiliate Putin. In either case, his legitimacy with elites and masses would be undermined, the forces of coercion that underpin fascist Russia would be severely weakened, fascist elites would reimagine themselves as democrats-in-hiding, and the Russian people would be faced with the arduous task of shedding their love affair with power, war, strongmen and violence.

Won’t a humiliated Putin incapable of saving face resort to some deranged action such as employing a nuclear weapon? Putin has amply demonstrated already that he is delusional and willing to act on his delusions. It was delusional to think he could conquer Ukraine in three days. And yet he tried. It is delusional to think that he is winning the war. And yet he does. It is delusional to think that Russia's economy can survive the sanctions intact. And yet he does. It was crazy to permit Russian soldiers to dig trenches in the radioactive ground near the Chernobyl reactor. It is crazy to toy with the safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, Europe’s largest. It is, finally, crazy to embark openly and gleefully on genocide.

But the good news is that a humiliated, defeated and delegitimized Putin is far less likely to do something crazily destructive than a proud Putin who hasn’t lost face. The Russian führer may, in the depths of his bunker, desperately want to press the nuclear button, but his manifest humiliation will deter the generals who need to endorse his folly from doing so. Why follow a has-been into hell when acknowledging defeat can lead to more fortuitous outcomes for them and for Russia?

A leader who dwells amid delusional fantasies and delights in atrocities cannot be permitted to save face. His army must be defeated, his regime must be dismantled, and he must be humiliated — completely and totally — for some Russians to come to their senses and for peace to have a chance.

 

Alexander J. Motyl is a professor of political science at Rutgers University-Newark. A specialist on Ukraine, Russia and the USSR, and on nationalism, revolutions, empires and theory, he is the author of 10 books of nonfiction, as well as "Imperial Ends": The Decay, Collapse, and Revival of Empires” and "Why Empires Reemerge: Imperial Collapse and Imperial Revival in Comparative Perspective.”

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/why-vladimir-putin-must-be-humiliated/ar-AA10ItCk?li=AAggFp5

 

[toxicweasel]

12 hours ago, Gregorius said:

When Russia was fighting in Grozny (in Chechnia) they lost a number of tanks to RPGs being fired from the upper floors of buildings. That is what the cage is there to stop. It was not designed to stop Javelin or NLAW missiles.

Having layered sheets of ERA 6 inches apart instead of bar cage can work better. When first layer explodes as missile hits, the 2nd and 3rd layers move in the opposite vertical direction instantaneously and thus hitting the missile like a baseball bat, not only exploding themselves and the tandem charge but also deflecting it somewhat.  Also an upward looking radar/sensor that releases HE rounds vertically can kill off missile at much higher distances.  Both can be also be cheap like less than $10K to protect $3M tank average price.

I thought the cages were a means of stopping the crews running away from Ukrainian soldiers.

That's pretty much what I wrote. Cope cage was for urban fighting before they decided that annihilating cities before entering is better from their point of view.

[toxicweasel]

10 hours ago, Kath said:

Oh my, that's gonna stir up a hornets nest with the weasel... he will be here shortly to chop off your head.  This is insane for me, I feel alive when there is a battle happening.   I must settle and be calm and dignified as an old lady should be.  but - don't forget guys, I'm really a battleaxe with a great deal of real battle experience, like when your liberty, property and life are on the line.  I do not back off.

I do not remember addressing you this time, but I understand that you have to unload your frustration on someone since UK proxy is losing this war.

[toxicweasel]

10 hours ago, dvernb said:

Why Vladimir Putin must be humiliated

The conventional wisdom has it that Vladimir Putin must not be humiliated, lest he do something crazy. The conventional wisdom is wrong. Putin requires no humiliation to do something unhinged, and his humiliation is the only way to end the Russo-Ukrainian War and give Russia a chance of returning to civilization.

Humiliation is not about insulting Putin, nor is it about exposing his personal peccadilloes. Humiliation is about handing Putin a complete and total defeat on the battlefield, one that will not enable him to “save face” and make a semi-plausible case for some form of Russian victory. Anything short of such a defeat will save Putin’s regime — as well as Putin himself — from collapse, persuade Russians that their faith in Putin was justified and their responsibility for war crimes is nil, and guarantee the war’s continuation. Putin must be humiliated for there to be a lasting and durable peace — and for Russia to begin its long slog back to humanity.

The genocidal war against Ukrainians is Putin’s war, but it wasn’t just a matter of his personal choice. Putin sits in the royal core of a highly centralized political system that, like Adolf Hitler’s, thrives on and needs violence, both to maintain law and order at home and to intimidate neighbors, acquire territory, power and influence, and justify its fascist constitution and policies with its domestic supporters among the elites and masses.

Putin announced the start of the "special military operation" on Feb. 24, but it is the fascist, imperialist Russian state that is waging hostilities, committing genocide and destroying Ukraine — all with the approval, sometimes enthusiastic and sometimes tacit, of most Russians.

Given these circumstances, if Putin manages to escape the consequences of Russia’s bellicosity by saving face and avoiding humiliation, the political and social system of which he is the core will continue to exist and its violent policy preferences will continue to determine Russia’s behavior internally and externally. Putin will remain in power and the fascist system that he has built so assiduously for over two decades will survive. The Russo-Ukrainian War may enjoy a hiatus for a few months or even years — and that will give the Russian military the opportunity to lick it's wounds and revive — but it inevitably will resume as soon as Putin, his system, and its supporters feel the time is right.

A comparison with Hitler is apposite. The Allies understood that Nazi Germany had to be defeated, completely and totally — that Hitler had to suffer humiliation and not be given the opportunity to save face. Anything short of a complete and total defeat would have meant a continuation of the Hitler state, the Hitler society, and Hitler himself. It was only after Hitler committed suicide and Nazi Germany capitulated that German society could be de-Nazified, albeit incompletely, and Germany be transformed into a decent society.

Does that mean invading Russia and reducing its cities to rubble? Of course not. A complete and total defeat would entail liberating the Ukrainian territory seized by Russia in2014 and in 2022; even driving the Russian troops to the pre-invasion borders would suffice to humiliate Putin. In either case, his legitimacy with elites and masses would be undermined, the forces of coercion that underpin fascist Russia would be severely weakened, fascist elites would reimagine themselves as democrats-in-hiding, and the Russian people would be faced with the arduous task of shedding their love affair with power, war, strongmen and violence.

Won’t a humiliated Putin incapable of saving face resort to some deranged action such as employing a nuclear weapon? Putin has amply demonstrated already that he is delusional and willing to act on his delusions. It was delusional to think he could conquer Ukraine in three days. And yet he tried. It is delusional to think that he is winning the war. And yet he does. It is delusional to think that Russia's economy can survive the sanctions intact. And yet he does. It was crazy to permit Russian soldiers to dig trenches in the radioactive ground near the Chernobyl reactor. It is crazy to toy with the safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, Europe’s largest. It is, finally, crazy to embark openly and gleefully on genocide.

But the good news is that a humiliated, defeated and delegitimized Putin is far less likely to do something crazily destructive than a proud Putin who hasn’t lost face. The Russian führer may, in the depths of his bunker, desperately want to press the nuclear button, but his manifest humiliation will deter the generals who need to endorse his folly from doing so. Why follow a has-been into hell when acknowledging defeat can lead to more fortuitous outcomes for them and for Russia?

A leader who dwells amid delusional fantasies and delights in atrocities cannot be permitted to save face. His army must be defeated, his regime must be dismantled, and he must be humiliated — completely and totally — for some Russians to come to their senses and for peace to have a chance.

 

Alexander J. Motyl is a professor of political science at Rutgers University-Newark. A specialist on Ukraine, Russia and the USSR, and on nationalism, revolutions, empires and theory, he is the author of 10 books of nonfiction, as well as "Imperial Ends": The Decay, Collapse, and Revival of Empires” and "Why Empires Reemerge: Imperial Collapse and Imperial Revival in Comparative Perspective.”

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/why-vladimir-putin-must-be-humiliated/ar-AA10ItCk?li=AAggFp5

 

Sigh... I see that madness in western media is still healthy and kicking. "Putin must be humiliated, Putin must be removed". How about not starting a proxy wars against superpowers?

How is this humiliation of Putin working for Ukraine so far? To the last Ukrainian, right?

This bogus lie that Russia claimed that they can take in Ukraine in 3 days is repeated over and over again. I guess that 1000 times repeated lie becomes the truth? Fact that someone hates Russia. like author of this text, does not make Russians automatically fascists. This is just useful term in the hands of useful idiot serving as dehumanization tool. if he thinks that fascists are really bad and compares Putin and Hitler, maybe author should take look at actual Nazi battalions of Ukraine.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by toxicweasel

[toxicweasel]

It seems that Russians are massing large number of troops north from Kharkiv and in the south in Kherson region.

For a few months I've suspected that Russians are going to stage false flag attacks on their own territory and use it as an excuse to declare a war. I do not think that they have support of public for it but this could sway them  in that particular direction.

Western proposition to ban Russians from traveling might just re-affirm claims of Kremlin that west is indeed against all Russians and not just an imperialist government.

[Kath]

I think you can't deny that Russia has started this WAR without provocation from any other country.  The unfortunate outcome of that is the response from the rest of the world.

Russia must now accept that actions have consequences and the WHOLE world is prepared to support the country that they have most brutally attacked. 

This will not end well for Russia.

[Merlin]

History repeating

[toxicweasel]

On 8/18/2022 at 12:52 AM, Kath said:

I think you can't deny that Russia has started this WAR without provocation from any other country.  The unfortunate outcome of that is the response from the rest of the world.

Russia must now accept that actions have consequences and the WHOLE world is prepared to support the country that they have most brutally attacked. 

This will not end well for Russia.

You still believe that this is unprovoked war? Russians were saying publicly what are they going to do if west keeps pushing own interests in Ukraine. West called the bluff but apparently Russians rarely bluff. Irony is that only time they lied is when they said they won't invade just before invading.... otherwise they were announcing it for more than a decade. This conflict goes way back, probably back to 2004 and orange revolution.

It's clearly provoked, goal is to weaken Russian influence and price is Ukrainian lives, I mean this was said publicly since war started by the US officials more than once on record. Thing is, provoked does not mean justified. Entire situation probably gained more traction in Russia since new reserves of natural gas and oil were discovered in Crimea and Donbas which culminated in 2014 coup and flocking of western companies.

Response from the world is quite expected. Ukraine was and still is one of most corrupt countries in Europe and the world, rest of the world will not risk own security for them.

Ukraine is not a democracy, they spent years imprisoning and even eliminating journalists and opposition politicians. In this regard, they are even worse than Russian or right there next to them. They are not defenders of civilization, they are barely civilized themselves. They do have big Nazi problem, even streets named after Bandera, hell even statues dedicated to him. if you go back and look at the youtube channels of the BBC and Deutsche Welle you will see them saying the same thing past 10 years.

Ukraine is losing this war, and if Putin manages to get enough support for actual declaration of war and mobilization, Ukraine will be done very soon. Even now, country as we knew as Ukraine before February is gone, probably for good. I do not think that anyone expected that Russians have so robust arms produce industry. They fire between 50k and 70k artillery shells every day for months without any sign of running out of it. That's more than 1.5 million shells per month!

Now it is more clear than ever, Russia wont be isolated from the world. Currently it is isolated from Europe. Rest of the world does not care much, they do business as usual. Thanks to the US foreign politics China and Russia are cooperating more than ever.

I love Americans, I grew up on American pop culture but why do we need this? Why do you have to poke China and Taiwan now? They are both China, literal name of Taiwan is Republic Of China. Using the words of American president "Come on man!"

 

[dvernb]

Ukraine counter-offensive: Russian forces retreat as Ukraine takes key towns

Russian forces have withdrawn from key eastern towns, as a rapid Ukrainian counter-attack makes further gains.

Ukrainian officials said troops entered Kupiansk, a vital eastern supply hub for Russian forces, on Saturday.

Russia's defence ministry then said its troops have retreated from nearby Izyum to allow them "to regroup".

The ministry also confirmed the withdrawal of troops from a third key town, Balaklyia, in order to "bolster efforts" on the Donetsk front.

The Ukrainian advances - if held - would be the most significant since Russia withdrew from areas around Kyiv in April.

In his nightly video address on Saturday, President Volodymyr Zelensky claimed that Ukraine had now liberated 2,000 sq km (700 sq miles) from Russia since beginning a renewed counter-offensive earlier this month.

His claim would suggest that half of that area has been recaptured in the last 48 hours alone - as it is twice the area of territory Mr Zelensky said had been liberated when he spoke on Thursday evening.

Russia's admission of a withdrawal from Izyum is significant because it was a major military hub for Moscow.

"A three-day operation was carried out on the drawdown and organised transfer of the Izyum-Balakliya group of troops to the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic," the Russian statement said.

"In order to prevent damage to the Russian troops, a powerful fire defeat was inflicted on the enemy."

Shortly afterwards, the chief administrator of Russian-controlled parts of the Kharkiv region recommended that its residents evacuate to Russia "to save lives", according to the Russian state-run Tass news agency.

And the governor of the neighbouring Belgorod region, in Russia, said mobile catering, heating, and medical assistance would be available to people queuing to cross the border.

The advances will be seen as a sign that Ukraine's army has the capacity to retake Russian-occupied territory, crucial as Kyiv continues to ask its hard-pressed Western allies for military support.

Ukraine's Foreign Minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said the latest developments had shown its forces were able to defeat the Russian army and could end the war faster with more Western weapons.

Encouragement for Kyiv and allies

Analysis by Orla Guerin, Senior International Correspondent in central Ukraine

The pace of the counter-offensive has not only caught the Russians off guard, but even surprised some Ukrainians. People here have been struggling to keep up with news of the latest gains.

The Russians have now lost two key logistics hubs - the railway cities of Izyum and Kupiansk. This is a military setback and a public humiliation for President Putin.

We cannot reach the frontlines. Journalists have been denied access. Ukraine is determined to control the information war. But plenty of footage has emerged on social media showing Ukrainian troops raising their flag in newly liberated areas.

All of this is cathartic for Ukraine and reassuring for its Western backers.

The Russians still hold around a fifth of the country and few imagine a swift end to the war. But the Ukrainians have now shown they can beat the Russians in battle, not just outmanoeuvre them. According to one military expert, it's the first time since World War Two that whole Russian units have been lost.

Earlier, UK defence officials said Ukraine had advanced 50km (31 miles) into previously Russian-held territory.

"Russian forces were likely taken by surprise," the UK Ministry of Defence said. "The sector was only lightly held and Ukrainian units have captured or surrounded several towns."

Ukraine launched its counter-offensive in the east earlier this week, while international attention was focused on an anticipated advance near the southern city of Kherson.

Analysts believe Russia redirected some of its most seasoned troops to defend the city.

But as well as gaining ground in the east, Ukraine is also making gains in the south, an official said.

Nataliya Gumenyuk, a spokesperson for the Ukrainian army's southern command, said they had advanced "between two and several dozens of kilometres" along that front.

But Russian forces fighting on the southern front are said to have dug into defensive positions, and Ukraine's troops have faced heavy resistance since the offensive began.

And in Kharkiv itself, one person was killed and several homes damaged on Saturday as Russian rocket fire hit the city, according to local officials.

Ukrainian officials shared a picture on social media that appeared to show Ukrainian troops holding up the country's flag in front of Kupiansk city hall, with the Russian flag at their feet.

On Friday President Zelensky said his forces were "gradually taking control of new settlements" and "returning the Ukrainian flag and protection for all our people".

He also said that national police units were returning to liberated settlements and urged civilians to report suspected Russian war crimes to them.

His call followed a report from the UN's monitoring team in Ukraine which said they had "documented a range of violations against prisoners of war" by Moscow's forces.

The report also accused Ukrainian troops of "cases of torture and ill-treatment of prisoners of war".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62860774?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

 

[Kath]

Don't relax now Ukraine, do NOT congratulate yourselves yet, this is just the start of the push. Keep up the pressure, do not get smug or complacent, that's fatal. 

It's important that the west keeps up the supply of weapons to defeat this invasion of a democratic nation by an aggressive force from a neighbouring country, namely, Russia.

Russia, you killed your credibility in the world , your gas supply cutoff to Europe will not change our resolve.  I would rather burn my own furniture to keep warm than give in to your threats.  I'm sure many of us in Europe feel the same way.

[toxicweasel]

Lol, Ukraine democratic nation... anyways...

Russians cut of the gas if you believe in propaganda. Did Europe really expect that there will be no consequences for seizing Russian money, expropriating gazprom property in Germany and capping prices? Then having audacity to say how Russians are using energy as a weapon, I mean come on... If anything west lost credibility as a reliable partner as someone who is safe to keep your money. World is already slowly moving away from the dollar and euro, good f. job.

Regarding this offensive;

Most of the Russian troops left Kharkiv region around seven days before offensive started. Ukrainians are mostly driving into the empty towns and cities, look at the defended lines. In the south similar offensive failed miserably. Russians knew, but apparently they also knew that actual attack will be in the south toward Melitopol and Mariupol.

I do not think that they planed to completely abandon Kharkiv, but very few troops stayed there and weren't able to defend positions. Ukraine has big problem with infiltration, so far Russians knew about all attacks and started preparing for the main battle in direction of Mariupol.

Now that Ukrainian army is on the move, they need supplies and guess what - Russians hit the power grid, this can leave Ukrainians without supplies and re-enforcements cause they heavily rely on electricity.

God I hope that I'm wrong but it looks like as if this euphoria is going to be drowned in blood. Russians massed two large battle groups before first offensive in Kherson region started. One was in Belgorod region and another in Rostov. Does anyone even knows remotely where did they go?

This is bad beyond imagination....

[dvernb]

Vladimir Putin's grip on power in Moscow is imploding

Halfway through his invasion of Ukraine's sixth bloody month, Russian President Vladimir Putin's grip on power in Moscow is imploding as scores of Kremlin officials are calling upon the 69-year-old autocrat to quit.

Putin had anticipated his February 24th "special military operation" to be a cakewalk through the Russian-controlled East into the Ukrainian capitol of Kyiv. But with the aid of a Western coalition led by the United States, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's unshatterable resistance campaign has decimated Putin's combat forces and depleted his military's offensive capabilities.

Casualties have climbed into the tens of thousands. Numerous allegations of genocide committed against Ukrainian civilians have flooded international watchdog organizations. The global economy has suffered major setbacks. Europe quivers on the brink of potentially multiple atomic disasters. And Moscow's finest are either bogged down or on the run.

On Saturday, The Daily Beast reported that "just one day after several municipal deputies in Putin’s hometown of St. Petersburg called on the State Duma to try the Russian leader for treason, their colleagues in Moscow joined in and demanded he steps down because his views are 'hopelessly outdated.'"

In an open letter to Putin, deputies from Moscow's Lomonosovsky district recalled that Putin's leadership began with "good reforms" but that as time marched onward, “everything went wrong.”

While the deepening quagmire in Ukraine was not specifically mentioned, the authors stressed that the status quo under Putin is untenable.

“The rhetoric that you and your subordinates use has been riddled with intolerance and aggression for a long time, which in the end effectively threw our country back into the Cold War era. Russia has again begun to be feared and hated, we are once again threatening the whole world with nuclear weapons,” the officials wrote. “We ask you to relieve yourself of your post due to the fact that your views and your governance model are hopelessly outdated and hinder the development of Russia and its human potential."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/we-ask-you-to-relieve-yourself-of-your-post-kremlin-officials-have-begun-a-mutiny-against-vladimir-putin/ar-AA11HTuq?li=AAggNb9

 

Bottom line: Russia is now hated and feared by almost the entire world and the Russian people don't like it.

 

[toxicweasel]

3 hours ago, dvernb said:

Vladimir Putin's grip on power in Moscow is imploding

Halfway through his invasion of Ukraine's sixth bloody month, Russian President Vladimir Putin's grip on power in Moscow is imploding as scores of Kremlin officials are calling upon the 69-year-old autocrat to quit.

Putin had anticipated his February 24th "special military operation" to be a cakewalk through the Russian-controlled East into the Ukrainian capitol of Kyiv. But with the aid of a Western coalition led by the United States, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's unshatterable resistance campaign has decimated Putin's combat forces and depleted his military's offensive capabilities.

Casualties have climbed into the tens of thousands. Numerous allegations of genocide committed against Ukrainian civilians have flooded international watchdog organizations. The global economy has suffered major setbacks. Europe quivers on the brink of potentially multiple atomic disasters. And Moscow's finest are either bogged down or on the run.

On Saturday, The Daily Beast reported that "just one day after several municipal deputies in Putin’s hometown of St. Petersburg called on the State Duma to try the Russian leader for treason, their colleagues in Moscow joined in and demanded he steps down because his views are 'hopelessly outdated.'"

In an open letter to Putin, deputies from Moscow's Lomonosovsky district recalled that Putin's leadership began with "good reforms" but that as time marched onward, “everything went wrong.”

While the deepening quagmire in Ukraine was not specifically mentioned, the authors stressed that the status quo under Putin is untenable.

“The rhetoric that you and your subordinates use has been riddled with intolerance and aggression for a long time, which in the end effectively threw our country back into the Cold War era. Russia has again begun to be feared and hated, we are once again threatening the whole world with nuclear weapons,” the officials wrote. “We ask you to relieve yourself of your post due to the fact that your views and your governance model are hopelessly outdated and hinder the development of Russia and its human potential."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/we-ask-you-to-relieve-yourself-of-your-post-kremlin-officials-have-begun-a-mutiny-against-vladimir-putin/ar-AA11HTuq?li=AAggNb9

 

Bottom line: Russia is now hated and feared by almost the entire world and the Russian people don't like it.

 

Could not be further form the truth, you can not rely on propaganda outlets on any of sides. Unless you think by the world USA and it's allies (unfortunately this seems to be case more than often).

Since they started destroying critical infrastructure it appears that actual war is near.

Moscow announces that there will be NO peace talks which means only one thing:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/russia-sees-no-prospects-for-resuming-peace-talks-with-ukraine/2683236

 

[dvernb]

Ukraine Delivers another blow To Russia As It Breaches Front Line On Oskil River

Ukrainian soldiers have broken through Russia's frontline along the Oskil River, exposing an important supply route and swathes of territory that the Kremlin has promised to defend. 

Fighting has focused on Kupiansk since Russian forces fled a surprise Ukrainian offensive around Kharkiv in northeast Ukraine last week but now military bloggers from both sides have said that Russia's defence has crumbled once again. 

"Kupiansk has surrendered. The enemy is on the left bank of the Oskil," the pro-Russian military blogger Vladlen Tatarsky told his 450,000 subscribers last night.

Western commentators confirmed the development. James Rushton, a British military analyst based in Ukraine, said he didn't think that Russian forces would be able to hold their defensive line along the Oskil River for much longer. 

"The Ukrainians have already crossed it," he said. "Considering they now control all of Kupiansk, half of the city is on the eastern bank, any defensive line the Russians might try to form along the river is already very vulnerable." 

Russian forces fled across the Oskil River, which runs north-south from central Russia into Ukraine, after a surprise Ukrainian offensive recaptured roughly 2,500 square miles of territory, an area nearly equal to the size of Devon.

Kupiansk and Izyum are the largest and most valuable towns captured by the Ukrainian military. Both were heavily fought over in the opening weeks of the war and the Russian army had used them as logistics bases for supplying its forces in Donbas. 

The British Ministry of Defence said that a Ukrainian breach of the Russian frontline along the Oskil River would humiliate the Kremlin, which has made capturing and then defending Luhansk a priority, and threaten its final logistics hub to Donbas from the Russian city of Belgorod. 

"This line sits along the border of Luhansk Oblast, part of the Donbas, which Russia aims to ‘liberate’ as one of its immediate war aims," it said. "Any substantial loss of territory in Luhansk will unambiguously undermine Russia’s strategy." 

It added that "Russia will likely attempt a stubborn defence of this area, but it is unclear whether Russia's front line forces have sufficient reserves or adequate morale to withstand another concerted Ukrainian assault."

The Oskil River meanders south through fertile farmland in Ukraine before joining the Seversky Donets River which flows into Donbas. It lies 75 miles east of Kharkiv and 110 miles to the northwest of the city of Luhansk which pro-Russia rebels have controlled since an uprising in 2014 against the central government in Kyiv.

The US-based Institute for the Study of War also confirmed that Ukrainian forces had broken through Russia's northeastern frontline. "Russian forces are likely too weak to prevent further Ukrainian advances along the entire Oskil River," it said. 

A video reportedly shot from a Ukrainian tank and uploaded onto Twitter was geolocated to Kupiansk on the east bank of the Oskil River. 

It showed the smashed-up and destroyed city. On the left of the video footage lie the wrecks of two smouldering and seemingly abandoned Russian tanks, one painted with the letter Z which has become a Russian pro-war symbol. 

Another video of a Ukrainian soldier celebrating the destruction of a Russian armoured personnel carrier has also been geolocated to the east bank of the Oskil River. "All will soon be Ukraine," the soldier says in the video. Russian forces have taken huge losses since the Kremlin ordered the invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24. 

The Pentagon has estimated that the Russian army has sustained at least 75,000 dead or injured, far greater than the Soviet Union's losses in a decade of fighting in Afghanistan in the 1980s. 

Analysts have said the Russian army's rout from the Ukrainian offensive showed that it was exhausted, suffering from a breakdown around its command and control structures and that morale was poor. 

And there is evidence from messages on the Telegram social media app that Russian soldiers are finding it hard to sustain their defence against Ukrainian attacks. 

In one conversation leaked onto the Telegram social media app and reported by the BBC, one Russian officer apparently explained to a friend back home that he had lost two more sniper units and that losses were becoming unsustainable. 

"You have no idea how tiring it is to say hello to someone in the morning and then have to identify his remains later that day," he said, according to the Telegram post.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ukraine-delivers-another-blow-to-russia-as-it-breaches-front-line-on-oskil-river/ar-AA11W1H5?li=AAggNb9

 

[Kath]

This gets more surprising every day, this is good news to us, thank you dvernb for your posts.

[dvernb]

Russian strike kills 25 as Kremlin to annex Ukraine regions

Russia pounded Ukrainian cities with missiles, rockets and suicide drones, with one strike reported to have killed 25 people, as it moved Friday to annex Ukrainian territory into Russia and put it under the protection of Moscow's nuclear umbrella, opening an internationally condemned phase of the seven-month war.

But even as it prepared to celebrate the incorporation of four occupied Ukrainian regions, the Kremlin was on the verge of another stinging battlefield loss. Russian and Western analysts reported the imminent Ukrainian encirclement of the eastern city of Lyman. Retaking the city could open the path for Ukraine to push deep into one of the regions Russia is absorbing in a move widely condemned as illegal.

The salvos of Russian strikes reported in Ukrainian cities together amounted to the heaviest barrage that Russia has unleashed for weeks. They followed analysts’ warnings that Russian President Vladimir Putin was likely to dip more heavily into his dwindling stocks of precision weapons and step up attacks as part of a strategy to escalate the war to an extent that would shatter Western support for Ukraine.

The Kremlin preceded its scheduled annexation ceremonies Friday with another warning to Ukraine that it shouldn’t fight to take back the four regions. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Moscow would view a Ukrainian attack on the taken territory as an act of aggression against Russia itself.

The annexations are Russia's attempt to set its gains in stone, at least on paper, and scare Ukraine and its Western backers with the prospect of an increasingly escalatory conflict unless they back down — which they show no signs of doing. The Kremlin paved the way for the land-grabs with “referendums,” sometimes at gunpoint, that Ukraine and its Western backers universally dismissed as rigged shams.

“It looks quite pathetic. Ukrainians are doing something, taking steps in the real material world, while the Kremlin is building some kind of a virtual reality, incapable of responding in the real world,” former Kremlin speechwriter turned political analyst Abbas Gallyamov said.

“People understand that the politics is now on the battlefield," he added. "What’s important is who advances and who retreats. In that sense, the Kremlin cannot offer anything сomforting to the Russians.”

A recent Ukrainian counter-offensive backed by Western-supplied weapons has deprived Moscow of mastering its fate on the military fields of battle. Its hold of the Luhansk region appears increasingly shaky, as Ukrainian forces make inroads there, with the pincer assault on Lyman. Ukraine also still has a large foothold in the neighboring Donetsk region.

Luhansk and Donetsk – wracked by fighting since separatists there declared independence in 2014 – form the wider Donbas region of eastern Ukraine that Putin has long vowed, but so far failed, to make completely Russian. Peskov said that both Donetsk and Luhansk will be incorporated Friday into Russia in their entirety.

All of Kherson and parts of Zaporizhzhia, two other regions being prepared for annexation, were newly occupied in the invasion’s opening phase. It’s unclear whether the Kremlin will declare all, or just part, of that occupied territory as Russia's. Peskov wouldn’t say in a call Friday with reporters.

In the Zaporizhzhia region's capital, anti-aircraft missiles that Russia has repurposed as ground-attack weapons rained down Friday on people who were waiting in cars to cross into Russian-occupied territory so they could bring family members back across the front lines, the deputy head of Ukraine's presidential office, Kyrylo Tymoshenko, said.

The general prosecutor's office said 25 people were killed and 50 wounded. The strike left deep impact craters and sent shrapnel tearing through the humanitarian convoy's lined-up vehicles, killing their passengers. Nearby buildings were demolished. Trash bags, blankets and, for one victim, a blood-soaked towel, were used to cover bodies.

Russian-installed officials in Zaporizhzhia blamed Ukrainian forces for the strike, but provided no evidence.

Russian strikes were also reported in the city of Dnipro. The regional governor, Valentyn Reznichenko, said at least one person was killed and five others were wounded by Russian Iskander missiles that slammed into a transportation company, destroying buses, and that also damaged high-rise buildings.

Ukraine's air force said the southern cities of Mykolaiv and Odesa were also targeted again with Iranian-supplied suicide drones that Russia has increasingly deployed in recent weeks, seemingly to avoid losing more pilots who don't have control of Ukraine's skies.

Putin was expected to give a major speech at the Kremlin ceremony to fold Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia into Russia. The Kremlin planned for the region's pro-Moscow administrators to sign annexation treaties in the ornate St. George’s Hall of the palace in Moscow that is Putin's seat of power.

Putin also issued decrees recognizing the supposed independence of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, steps he previously took in February for Luhansk and Donetsk and earlier for Crimea, seized from Ukraine in 2014.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, meanwhile, called an emergency meeting of his National Security and Defense Council and denounced the latest barrage of Russian strikes.

“The enemy rages and seeks revenge for our steadfastness and his failures,” he posted on his Telegram channel. "You will definitely answer. For every lost Ukrainian life!”

The U.S. and its allies have promised to pile even more sanctions on Russia and to offer billions of dollars in extra support for Ukraine as the Kremlin duplicates the annexation playbook used for Crimea.

With Ukraine vowing to take back all occupied territory and Russia pledging to defend its gains, and threatening nuclear-weapon use to do so, the two nations are on an increasingly escalatory collision course.

That was underscored by the fighting for the city of Lyman, some 160 kilometers (100 miles) southeast of Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city.

A key node for Russian military operations in the contested Donbas region, Lyman is a sought-after prize in the Ukrainian counteroffensive that has had spectacular success since its launch in late August. Retaking the city could allow Kyiv to push into deeper into Russian-occupied Luhansk province, which would be a stinging blow for Moscow after its stage-managed “referendum” there.

The Washington-based Institute for the Study of War said the city's fall to Ukrainian forces “is imminent" unless Russia can ward off the collapse with speedy reinforcements, which appeared “highly unlikely.”

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/russian-strike-kills-25-as-kremlin-to-annex-ukraine-regions/ar-AA12q93S

 

[dvernb]

Crimean bridge: Explosion is 'the beginning', says Zelensky adviser

A large fire on the only crossing between the occupied Crimean peninsula and Russia was caused by a lorry explosion, Russian officials say.

A blast on the road section led to oil tankers on the rail section catching fire, before the road collapsed.

Crimea was annexed in 2014 by Russia, which now uses the bridge to move military equipment into Ukraine.

The official Twitter account of the Ukraine government responded to the fire by tweeting: "Sick burn."

An adviser to Ukraine's President Zelensky, Mykhailo Podolyak, called the damage a "beginning" - but did not directly claim Ukrainian responsibility.

"Everything illegal must be destroyed, everything stolen must be returned to Ukraine, everything occupied by Russia must be expelled," he tweeted.

Meanwhile, the Ukraine defence ministry compared the bridge explosion to the sinking of Russia's Moskva missile cruiser in April.

"Two notorious symbols of Russian power in Ukrainian Crimea have gone down," it tweeted. "What's next in line?"

It is hard to exaggerate the significance, and symbolism, of seeing the bridge on fire. Opened by President Putin in 2018, it was meant to symbolise that Crimea was Russian.

Russia has used the bridge to move military equipment, ammunition, and personnel from Russia to battlefields in southern Ukraine.

As such, Ukrainian authorities said it was a legitimate target, as they vow to retake the peninsula.

Any attack on Crimea, where the Russian army has a massive presence, will be seen as another massive humiliation for the Kremlin.

The bridge is particularly hated by Ukrainians. Social media in Ukraine erupted in celebration on seeing the fire - one day after Russian President Vladimir Putin turned 70.

Road and rail traffic across the bridge has been suspended. Local authorities in Crimea say they will organise a ferry service between the Russian mainland and the peninsula.

Russia's National Anti-Terrorism Committee said: "At 06:07 Moscow time today [03:07 GMT], an explosion was set off at a cargo vehicle on the motorway part of the Crimean bridge on the side of the Taman peninsula, which set fire to seven fuel tanks of a train that was en route to the Crimean peninsula.

"Two motorway sections of the bridge partially collapsed."

Crimean parliamentary speaker Vladimir Konstantinov blamed the explosion on "Ukrainian vandals, who have finally managed to reach their bloody hands to the Crimean bridge".

He added the damage to the bridge would be "promptly restored, since it is not of a serious nature".

President Putin has been briefed about the "emergency" on the bridge and has ordered a government inquiry, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, in comments quoted by Interfax news agency.

A criminal investigation is also under way.

The 19km (12-mile) bridge across the Kerch Strait, which cost £2.7bn to build, was opened by President Putin four years after Moscow illegally annexed Crimea.

It is the longest bridge in Europe, and was hailed by Russian media as "the construction of the century". Russian officials previously claimed it was well protected from threats from air, land or water.

The crossing is more than 100 miles from Ukrainian-held territory. One explosives expert told the BBC the fire was probably not caused by a missile.

"The lack of obvious blast / fragmentation damage on the road surface suggests that an air-delivered weapon was not used," he said.

He said it was possible that "a well-planned attack from below may have been the cause".

"I suspect explosives on the road bridge and train deck were initiated near simultaneously using coded radio command," he added.

Ukraine claimed responsibility last month for a series of air strikes on Crimea over the summer, including an attack on Russia's Saky military base.

Kyiv has the momentum in this conflict. The army has reclaimed large swathes of territory, forcing Russian troops to abandon long-held positions.

Amid the losses, Moscow has begun a chaotic military mobilisation - which led to rare anti-war protests in Russia, and a huge exodus of military-age men.

On Russian TV talk shows, presenters and studio guests have been expressing increasing doom and gloom about the situation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

 

 

[dvernb]

Ukraine war: Hope returns to Kherson after Russian forces leave

Image source, Moose Campbell

Kherson residents queue for donated packets of chicken from another region

 

By James Waterhouse

BBC Ukraine correspondent in Kherson

 

In the week since Russia pulled out of the southern city of Kherson, visceral relief has been replaced with an optimistic busyness.

As an acoustic band plays Western covers, queues of people snake around the city's main square.

There are tents where residents can get a hot drink or first aid. Many gather at mobile phone masts like bees around honey.

"We're calm now," Kostiantyn tells me as he queues for food donations with his daughter on his shoulders. "No water or power is fine."

The port city was captured by Russia in March, just days after forces invaded Ukraine. It was the only regional capital Russia managed to seize since February, but its military was forced to withdraw last week.

Image source, Moose Campbell

Russian soldiers used to threaten Kostiantyn Belitskyi’s family with their weapons

Also happy to chat was Olena, who admits to getting used to the Russian occupation.

"Ukrainian forces make us calm," she says.

"Now we can tell who is shelling and from where. If it's the Ukrainians that makes us happy, we're free now."

Image source, Moose Campbell

Olena Hatylo says she was collecting food donations for her disabled neighbours

"We have no light, no water but we have freedom!" exclaims Hryhorii Mykolayovych, who works in his local community kitchen.

He's frying sliced courgette over a log stove outside a block of flats.

After I ask him how he is, he takes a deep swallow and says: "The shelling is a bit of a problem, but things will get better. All of this is temporary."

The city's governor hopes so too. Yaroslav Yanushevych says his priority is "making everyone feel safer". He also wants every Russian collaborator to be "punished".

 

Image source, AFP

In a picture of "cause and effect", bread is handed out under pro-Moscow billboards which read "Together with Russia".

They were plastered across the city by Russian occupiers. Most have been torn down, but not all.

These humanitarian efforts are being gratefully received. It's clear they're desperately needed after Kherson was cut off by Russia's grasp for eight months.

However, for the estimated 75,000 people who chose to stay in Kherson, a lot more is needed for this city to get back on its feet.

It is, though, slowly reconnecting with Ukraine.

Lorries instead of tanks now move into the city along damaged roads. Train services between Kyiv and Kherson have also resumed.

While there is relief Kherson wasn't destroyed like other occupied cities, such as Mariupol, no one is thinking the danger has gone away.

Image source, Moose Campbell

Russian-occupied territory in the eastern bank of the Dnipro River

The sandy banks of the Dnipro River in Kherson are now the front line in this part of Ukraine.

Six hundred metres across is territory occupied by Russia. The thuds of artillery and whistling shells overhead illustrate how dangerous this part of the city has become.

Despite its appearance, this boundary is far from clear. In pulling out, the Russians left thousands of soldiers and collaborators behind.

It's also not clear whether Ukraine's counteroffensives will stop here, despite winter being round the corner.

For Kherson, liberation has not brought calm. But for the majority, it is "better than before".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63696944?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

 

[dvernb]

Cold and dark: Kyiv readies for 'worst winter of our lives'

The lack of electricity turned Anastasia Pyrozhenko’s apartment into a deathtrap

ByYURAS KARMANAU and JOHN LEICESTER Associated Press

November 21, 2022, 4:37 AM

 

 

Anastasia Pyrozhenko, 25, climbs the stairs in her multi-storey apartment building in Kyiv, Ukraine, Sunday, Nov. 20, 2022. The lack of electricity turned Anastasia Pyrozhenko’s apartment into a deathtrap. Without electricity, there’s no water and no way to cook food, and the woman and her husband won’t even have time to run to the shelter from their 21st floor in the event of missile strikes, because the elevator isn’t working. (AP Photo/Andrew Kravchenko)

The Associated Press

KYIV, Ukraine -- When the power is out, as it so often is, the high-rise apartment overlooking Ukraine’s war-torn capital feels like a deathtrap. No lights, no water, no way to cook food. And no elevator by which to escape from the 21st floor should a Russian missile strike. Even when electricity comes back, it’s never on for long.

“Russian strikes are plunging Ukraine into the Stone Age,” says Anastasia Pyrozhenko. In a recent 24-hour spell, her 26-story high-rise only had power for half an hour. She says the “military living conditions” have driven her and husband from their apartment.

“Our building is the highest in the area and is a great target for Russian missiles, so we left our apartment for our parents’ place and are preparing for the worst winter of our lives,” said the 25-year-old.

The situation in Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv, and other major cities has deteriorated drastically following the largest missile attack on the country’s power grid on Tuesday. Ukrainian state-owned grid operator Ukrenergo reported that 40% of Ukrainians were experiencing difficulties, due to damage to at least 15 major energy hubs across the country.

Warning that electricity outages could last anywhere from several hours to several days, the network said that “resilience and courage are what we need this winter.”

Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko, too, stressed the need to be ready and resilient in the face of a potential blackout: “Worst case scenario. Actually, I don’t like to talk about that, but I have to be prepared if we (do not) have electricity, blackout, no water, no heating, no services and no communication,” Klitschko told the AP on Friday.

Ukrenergo said in a statement that “thousands of kilometers of key high-voltage lines are not working,” affecting the entire country.

It published a picture of a transformer station that was destroyed by a Russian missile, leaving around 400,000 people without power. According to the report, “there are dozens of such transformers in the power system now. This equipment cannot be replaced quickly.”

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said after last week’s strikes that more than 10 million Ukrainians were left without electricity; by Sunday, he said some areas had seen improvements.

“The restoration of networks and technical supply capabilities, the de-mining of power transmission lines, repairs — everything goes on round the clock,” Zelenskyy said in his nightly address.

Blackouts were scheduled Sunday night in 15 regions and the city of Kyiv, he said. Ukrenergo said there would be scheduled outages in every region on Monday.

A sharp cold snap and the first snow have significantly complicated the situation in Kyiv, where temperatures are often below freezing in winter months. The cold forces people to turn on their heaters, which drastically increases the load on the grid and makes power outages longer. In light of the dropping temperatures, the Kyiv authorities announced they were setting up communal heating points.

In the city of 3 million people, 528 emergency points have been identified. Here, residents will be able to keep warm, drink tea, recharge their phones and get any necessary help. The heating points will be equipped with autonomous power sources, as well as special boiler rooms.

Mayor Klitschko, too, spoke of measures taken to prepare for energy outages with the onset of colder temperatures: “We prepared and we (asked for) electric generators (from) our partners, which they send to us. For this case, we have a reserve of diesel, (of) oil. We have a lot of warm stuff. We have medication.”

Many residents in Kyiv have begun to leave boxes of food, flashlights and power banks in elevators, in case anyone gets stuck in one for a long time. Due to the lack of electricity, public transport is disrupted, many small shops cannot operate, and some medical institutions can only work to a limited capacity.

Dentist Viktor Turakevich said that he was forced to postpone his patients’ appointments “for an indefinite time” because without electricity his central Kyiv clinic cannot function even during the day, and the generator will only arrive in a few weeks.

“We cannot accept patients even with acute toothache, people have to suffer and wait a long time, but the light comes on only for a few hours a day,” Turakevich said. “Generator prices have skyrocketed, but even with money, they are not easy to come by.”

Most hospitals in Kyiv have already received generators and there are no power outages there yet. The Oleksandrivska hospital, the largest and oldest one in the center of Kyiv, reported that it had not canceled elective surgeries because the hospital had received electric generators from France. Generators have also been supplied to educational institutions and social services.

“Such facilities are a priority for us, and most of them are equipped with autonomous energy sources,” Ukrenergo head Volodymyr Kudrytskyi said on Friday. However, many schools in Kyiv have endured significant disruption to the learning process, with a lack of electricity meaning internet outages that make remote learning near impossible.

Yaroslav, age 8, stopped attending his school in the Vynohradar district of Kyiv after a rocket attack blew out all the windows of the school and damaged a shelter there.

“Most of the children studied remotely, but now it is no longer possible to do this,” said Yaroslav’s mother, Olena, who asked for her last name to be withheld for safety reasons, in a phone interview. “We are trying to protect children from the horrors of war, but the cold and the lack of power greatly hinder this.”

Analysts say that Russian rocket attacks on the energy industry do not affect the successful advance of the Ukrainian army in the south and the situation on the battlefield in general.

“The Russians cannot win on the battlefield, and therefore they use cold and darkness as a weapon against the civilian population, trying to sow panic, depression and demoralize Ukrainians,” Volodymyr Fesenko, an analyst at the Penta Center think tank in Kyiv, told the AP.

Russian President Vladimir Putin "is suffering military defeats and is in dire need of a military pause, which is why he is forcing Zelenskyy into negotiations in such a wild way,” he said.

The analyst believes the Kremlin is also trying to put pressure on Western support for Ukraine, as the EU and the U.S. will be forced to expand aid packages to a freezing Kyiv amid growing domestic troubles.

“Putin is trying to make the price of supporting Ukraine too high — this applies both to money and to a possible new flow of refugees to Europe from a freezing country,” Fesenko said.

Pyrozhenko, having left her high-rise, moved in with her mother in a small apartment in Kyiv, now home to five people. The family has a wooden house in a village near Kyiv and has already prepared firewood in case of a forced evacuation.

“We understand that winter can be long, cold and dark, but we are ready to endure,” Pyrozhenko said. “We are ready to live without light, but not with the Russians.”

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cold-dark-kyiv-readies-worst-winter-lives-93704304

 

[Merlin]

I feel guilty thinking it's cold in my house. We try not to use the electricity or gas to heat the house above 68°f because of the costs but at least we have the option for now. We've lived through Ice Storms and Blizzards that knocked out power for a few days or week at the most. We had a fireplace. kerosene stove and lamps and a supply of firewood and kerosene (and candles) so we could still have light in the dark,  hot coffee, dried beans and rice and pancakes or fried corn bread so we didn't really suffer as these poor people will be suffering this winter. Many will die from the cold or from trying to keep warm with fire. The threat of war could seem trite in comparison the hardships nature can deal out and life without basic necessities.

The brave face this woman wears with the reality she and the others are facing is an example to us all.

 

[toxicweasel]

Ukrainians return to the Kherson:

When all of this ends, and it will - no matter how, it's going to be very bad for Ukrainian people. Ukrainian "allies" are already asking for mass privatization. Ukraine is for sale, and vultures are here to pluck up the carcass.

What ever is left of Ukraine is going to be Nazi infested black hole of Europe.

This is the problem we in Europe will have to live with, same as Afghanistan now has to live with the Taliban.

Before jumping on your feet telling me "shame on you" again, let me ask one thing.

What is happening to the European economy? Exactly what I wrote on this very forum half a year ago.

If there is any wisdom and humanity among political elites (there isn't), they should stop this disgusting war now (they wont). Only America and Russia can stop this, and at this point none of them will.

I am deeply disappointed with humanity in general (I do not know what I really expected to be honest), cheering for sides as if this is some kind of sport competition. Not a trillion "slava ukraini" is going to make lives less miserable for those people.

 

[Kath]

Kherson and surrounding area are now in Ukrainian hands.  All the Russian atrocities will be reveled.

The current position is shown on Deep State.

You are truly Toxic weasel.  People are not cheering for sides, they are congratulating the people who have stood up for themselves and fought back against this outrageous attack from russia on a peaceful democratic state, that's why the whole world supports them.  The russians are hell bent on killing the civilian population.  It's a pity that they can't let the russians have a dose of their own medicine at the moment.

You and your russian friends can throw as much mud as you like on Ukraine.  But it will never be equal to the shame that russia will feel for decades from the rest of the world.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Kath
response to propaganda reports linked above

[Kath]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:26 PM, toxicweasel said:

Ukrainians return to the Kherson:

When all of this ends, and it will - no matter how, it's going to be very bad for Ukrainian people. Ukrainian "allies" are already asking for mass privatization. Ukraine is for sale, and vultures are here to pluck up the carcass.

What ever is left of Ukraine is going to be Nazi infested black hole of Europe.

This is the problem we in Europe will have to live with, same as Afghanistan now has to live with the Taliban.

Before jumping on your feet telling me "shame on you" again, let me ask one thing.

What is happening to the European economy? Exactly what I wrote on this very forum half a year ago.

If there is any wisdom and humanity among political elites (there isn't), they should stop this disgusting war now (they wont). Only America and Russia can stop this, and at this point none of them will.

I am deeply disappointed with humanity in general (I do not know what I really expected to be honest), cheering for sides as if this is some kind of sport competition. Not a trillion "slava ukraini" is going to make lives less miserable for those people.

You forget.. Russia started this war, everything was peaceful until then.  The whole world has shown how they feel about it.  Ukraine is totally innocent of any crime, whereas Russia has shown it is not to be trusted and is an aggressor, therefore must be ostrasized from humanity.

We all want to live in peace and prosper... the whole world knows this... Russia is living in a dead era of 100 years ago.  We have all learned and moved on from that, war over territory is not the way to go.  Where we are at the moment regarding land should be stable.  That's why Ukraine has garnered the support from most of the world to repel this insane mental derangement that Russia is exhibiting right now.